scriptures alluding to the vine Jesus

[RomanKorvinus]

it's funny how scripture is what someone else, usually a fanatic, says it is. You do know Jesus didn't like the Pharisee right? Pol was a Pharisee. Pharisee are Jews who strictly follow the laws of Moses, not Jesus' laws! So essentialy all Christians have two masters. Moses and Jesus.

it's funny how scripture is what someone else, usually a fanatic, says it is. You do know Jesus didn't like the Pharisee right? Pol was a Pharisee. Pharisee are Jews who strictly follow the laws of Moses, not Jesus' laws! So essentialy all Christians have two masters. Moses and Jesus.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Sadducees-Pharisees.html

[RomanKorvinus]

According to the KJB a Pharisee is a group of Jews who strictly follow the Laws of Moses. Pretty stright forward. The Laws of Moses are the Ten Commandments. Pretty Obvious. :deal:

it's funny how scripture is what someone else, usually a fanatic, says it is. You do know Jesus didn't like the Pharisee right? Pol was a Pharisee. Pharisee are Jews who strictly follow the laws of Moses, not Jesus' laws! So essentialy all Christians have two masters. Moses and Jesus.

You're wrong about one thing sweet Roman, Jesus loved all the Jews and the Pharisees. He may not've agreed with one particular thing they said or did, but He loved them.

What then are we to think about the attitude of Jesus toward the Pharisees? In the light of all that we have learned about the essentials of Pharisaism how are we to account for the scathing denunciations they received from the lips of Jesus? Jesus accused them of hypocrisy and pretentiousness.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees' self-righteous hypocrisy because it blinded them from seeing their need for repentance and a Savior.

Many Pharisees prided themselves in their strict avoidance of obvious, outward sin. But they refused to look inside themselves and acknowledge the presence of inner sin that didn't fall within the boundaries of their man-made rules. Jesus knew that in spite of their obsession with outward perfection, they willfully resisted consciousness of their inner corruption and need for grace:

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness (Matthew 23:25-28 NKJV).

Jesus associated with "known sinners" like tax collectors because He minimized their sin ( Luke 19:1-10 ). He freely associated with them because He knew that they were more open to repentance.

Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, "Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. "But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance" (Matthew 9:10-13 NKJV).

"Known sinners" weren't full of self-righteous pride, deliberately concealing their hidden sins behind a legalistic façade of "righteousness." Jesus was keenly ironic when He said, "I didn't come to call the righteous to repentance." He knew that the Pharisees weren't righteous, but their pretense of righteousness kept them from accepting the only remedy for their condition -- repentance and faith in Him. The obvious sins of "public sinners" made them more likely to repent and look to Jesus for the answers they needed.

We are all sinners, both inwardly and outwardly. Although we may not be notorious "public sinners," we all share a fallen nature and are often controlled by the "flesh" -- the "sin principle" -- within us (Romans 8). Jesus' stern warnings to the hypocritical Pharisees make it clear that sin we ignore and deny is no less serious in its effects than the sin of the public sinner.

it's funny how scripture is what someone else, usually a fanatic, says it is. You do know Jesus didn't like the Pharisee right? Pol was a Pharisee. Pharisee are Jews who strictly follow the laws of Moses, not Jesus' laws! So essentialy all Christians have two masters. Moses and Jesus.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Sadducees-Pharisees.html

Jesus apparently did not question the traditions but revealed that the Pharisees were hypocrites in that they were not willing to carry the burden that much of the legal minutia of the oral tradition required. Even Peter accused the Jewish leaders when he said:

Acts 15:10-11 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

In fact Jesus continually reinforced his accusations against their unwillingness to maintain a consistency between their tradition and the written law:

Matt 15:14 "They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."

Matt 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

The Pharisees would not live up to what they taught. They were so overly concerned with the externals that they neglected the "weightier matters of the law" and the simple truths about man and God. When their own Messiah had appeared in Israel they were so blinded by their observances and the minute details that they completely missed Him.


It is amazing that Jesus used the exact words of Isaiah, their great prophet, to describe their hypocrisy. Notice the quote from Isaiah 29:13:

Mark 7:5-7 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'

The Pharisees were intent upon cleansing the outside of the cup and dish whereas the inside remained dirty:

Matt 23:25-26 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

He even accused them of being whitewashed tombs, disguising their inner corruption:

Matt 23:27-29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Outward self righteousness is the inevitable product of Pharisaic legalism. Jesus revealed their true motives:

Matt 23:5 "But all their works they do to be seen by men."

They were so filled with pride that they could not see that they would not practice what they had preached. In fact this was exactly what Jesus meant when He said "for they say, and do not do" Matt 23:3.

What is really amazing is that the Talmud reveals that hypocrisy was not unknown among the Pharisees. A famous passage in the Talmud denounces six types of hypocritical Pharisees (BT, Sotah, 22b), which speak of many of the same faults pointed out by Jesus.

The Talmudic literature clearly condemns pretense and hypocrisy (JT, Berakoth f. ix, 7; 13 ), and from this there can be no doubt that these vices constituted special problems for Pharisees.


This is an important point because the literature of the Pharisaic tradition in no way sanctions hypocrisy. In fact it is in agreement with Jesus, yet there can be no doubt that hypocrisy existed among the Pharisees during the time of Jesus but we must not make the mistake that the early writers of the oral tradition were all corrupt and blind.


It is also important to note that all of the Pharisees were not like those described in Matthew 23. The gospels contain references to Pharisees who were admirable men. Nicodemus is an excellent example of what a Pharisee ought to have been. He was genuinely a seeker of truth (John 3:1 ff.), spoke out for justice on behalf of Jesus (John 7:50) , and remained a follower of Jesus even after the disciples had fallen away (John 19:39) .


Joseph of Arimathea was a member of the Sanhedrin and he looked for the kingdom of God (Mark 15:43) , he was almost certainly a Pharisee, he also did not consent to the decision to do away with Jesus (Luke 23:51) . He was a disciple of Jesus "secretly, for fear of the Jews" (John 19:38) and he made final provisions for the body of Jesus.


There were no doubt many such Pharisees who believed in Jesus, yet probably secretly. Even those who were not necessarily believers could display admirable traits: Gamaliel argued for open-mindedness (Acts 5:34 ff.); others warned Jesus of an attempt on His life:

Luke 13:30-31 "On that very day some Pharisees came, saying to Him, "Get out and depart from here, for Herod wants to kill You."

And others showed hospitality to Jesus (Luke 7: 36ff.; 11:37; 14:1) even though they were being accused by Jesus.

During the start of His ministry the body of Pharisees would have been interested to hear what Jesus had to say. They were interested to hear what any teacher in Israel had to say. The problem that they had with Jesus was His monumental claims and the authority in which He spoke. No man had ever spoken like this man, and no man had ever won the favor of the masses so quickly and so thoroughly. He even went so far as to claim that He was the very reason for Torah and the fulfillment of it. Their opposition against him grew to the point that they had plotted His death. When Jesus was to be arrested the Pharisees were among those that came to take Him away:

John 18:2-3 "Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons"

[RomanKorvinus]

Oddly enough your describing every teacher of the faith that ever lived.

Of course the thing about the bible is it only has reverance if you beileve to word of others over your ownself. Which incidentaly is following the path of other men and by no means proves faith in god.

Oddly enough your describing every teacher of the faith that ever lived.

Of course the thing about the bible is it only has reverance if you beileve to word of others over your ownself. Which incidentaly is following the path of other men and by no means proves faith in god.

faith is 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrew 11.1

The Word of God in the Holy Bible is part of having faith.

The early prophets of the O.T. and the Early Church and Jesus and the disciples and followers in N.T had true faith, and the believers of today have true faith too.

Faith in Christianity, as in other Abrahamic religions, centers on a belief in God, a belief in the reality of a transcendent domain that God administers as his kingdom, and in the benevolence of God's will or plan for humankind. Christianity differs in that it centers on a belief in the ministry of Jesus, and in his place as the prophesied Christ, as substantiated by his Passion and Resurrection.

The precise understanding of the term "faith" differs among the various Christian traditions, but this verse (John 3:16) is often used as a standard statement of Christian faith:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16, KJV)
Belief in the Resurrection
According to most Christian traditions, Christian faith requires a belief in Jesus' resurrection from the dead. The truth of the resurrection is substantiated in several ways: (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) '... the gospel I preached to you... Otherwise, you have believed in vain...'. The same book says, in 15:14: "And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (see also Acts 2:32; Philippians 3:10; John 11:25).

That he was raised from the dead by God the Father. Most Christians believe that God is one eternal being who exists as three distinct, eternal, and indivisible persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ the eternal Word), and the Holy Spirit.